chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on May 16, 2015 10:48:45 GMT -8
Also… Ann, I have some good advice on vintage trailer insurance. I've done a boatload (or trailerfull) of research and FCIS is a good path. They're the agent and they have people with experience negotiating settlements when the time comes. The actual insurance carrier is Progressive. Don't be too afraid of them… many on this and other forums think they're unreliable, but FCIS will help you with that. So will a professional appraisal from someone who's done vintage trailers before. I have a name for you if you need it. Progressive is NOT unreliable, because that would be controlled by any State Insurance Regulations.
My experience is that they are just CHEAP, when it comes to paying for the cost to repair "insured damage".
They cut every possible corner, and are a PITA to work with any professional shop.
Out of all the insurance companies that we did repair work for in the motorcycle shop (about a 100 crash repairs per year), Progressive was the ONLY insurance company that was a PITA!
If you buy a Agreed Value policy, there's no negotiating of settlements at the time of the repair. The repair will be covered to the terms of the policy.
In the common use of the word (unreliable), I'd consider CHEAP and PITA to be just that… unreliable. LOL! But technically, yes, state regulators generally dictate the rules. But I also absentmindedly left out the magic words: Agreed Value Policy. That's where the professional appraisal comes in. FCIS requires it, while American Adventure doesn't. Both agents front Progressive, its just that in my experience, the agents at AA don't give a darn as to whether you get a fair settlement, while FCIS does.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on May 16, 2015 11:17:19 GMT -8
But I agree with others in this thread that your Outback is not a good tow vehicle. Not because of Subaru's weight rating, but rather the tongue weight limitation, which I think for that vehicle is 200 to 270 lbs. depending on your model and year. The frame design can't handle any more than that… and it definitely can't handle any weight distribution. Even the European models which have higher tow weight ratings (not because the vehicle is different over there, but because of the strict speed limitations on the highways), prohibit the use of weight distributors. So know the tongue weight of your trailer loaded before you do anything. That's the limiting factor you have to deal with with that vehicle, before you even consider things like transmission coolers, etc. 2 cents. Where the heck are you all finding all this information? I searched reviews, auto magazines, consumer reports, manufacturer specs & Internet info, etc, etc. before buying my Outback... Knowing I was going to be towing the Compact. I didn't see any info like this, sure wish I had, I might have gone a different route. I gave up my beloved Nissan Juke (super fun car) so I could have a good tow car without buying an oversized, gas guzzler that I don't need most of the year. Where is this sort of info and how do prospective buyers get it? The dealer doesn't know jack, they just tell you what you want to hear. I knew more than they did about tow capacity! The guy quoted me the wrong weight and told him to check the manual that didn't sound right! Arrrgh Ann… there's a very good forum called outback.org. There is an active member who calls himself "subiesailor". He has towed racing sailboats hundreds of thousands of miles… with a wide variety of vehicles (but not his Outback!). My towing journey also started with aspirations for using my '05 3.0 Outback. In my dialogue with subiesailor, I realized that the Subaru was NOT going to meet my needs. Beware of the many Outback "fan boys" who will tell you their beloved Outbacks can do anything! Sailor helped me understand the vehicle within the context of real world towing. If you tow your Compact 50 miles to the beach three times per summer over flat terrain, then you may be willing to do that with your Outback and possibly shorten the service life of your car… but not kill it. (But I would still not exceed the tongue weight or use a weight distributor). If you live in the western mountains like I do, you have to drive hundreds of miles to get anywhere, through lots of elevation changes… wind storms… spring snow squalls in the passes… etc. Such conditions would be unstable for the Outback (even if it could physically survive)… and unnerving and dangerous for the driver. I would never tow my trailer without an anti-sway/weight distributor… and I don't worry too much about tongue weight on my TV (just that the trailer is properly balanced.) I also obey reasonable speed rules and don't drive in severe wet weather. I also protect my transmission with an auxiliary cooler and I keep it in "overdrive off" mode to minimize shifting, which keeps the machinery cooler too. Really, the last consideration is engine power… but I have to admit the 5.4 liter V8 in my '03 Jeep Grand Cherokee helps a lot! I paid $5K for it in 2014. It's a great value and a superb tow vehicle for light to moderate weight rigs. They're one of the most ubiquitous and successful vehicles on the road so you can find them in the used market easily. They're built like a truck (literally), but are rather car like in scale… and that's the only sacrifice, which is that you can get a bigger wheel base and more stable stance from a full sized pick up. But I find the Jeep plus Andersen hitch keeps the TV and trailer running as a tight unit… and makes the driving enjoyable. But Ann… if your towing demands are light… take it slow with the Subaru and keep your tongue weight to a minimum, as long as you keep your Compact balanced. The last thing you want to do is shift "tongue weight" from the front of the trailer to the back and have a back heavy trailer "steer" your tow vehicle and start wagging badly. And that right there is the dilemma with the Outback. Try to determine what your loaded tongue weight really is for starters. There are lots of diagrams/tutorials on the internet that can show you how to do that fairly accurately with a couple of household bathroom scales.
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on May 17, 2015 7:23:06 GMT -8
Progressive is NOT unreliable, because that would be controlled by any State Insurance Regulations.
My experience is that they are just CHEAP, when it comes to paying for the cost to repair "insured damage".
They cut every possible corner, and are a PITA to work with any professional shop.
Out of all the insurance companies that we did repair work for in the motorcycle shop (about a 100 crash repairs per year), Progressive was the ONLY insurance company that was a PITA!
If you buy a Agreed Value policy, there's no negotiating of settlements at the time of the repair. The repair will be covered to the terms of the policy.
In the common use of the word (unreliable), I'd consider CHEAP and PITA to be just that… unreliable. LOL! But technically, yes, state regulators generally dictate the rules. But I also absentmindedly left out the magic words: Agreed Value Policy. That's where the professional appraisal comes in. FCIS requires it, while American Adventure doesn't. Both agents front Progressive, its just that in my experience, the agents at AA don't give a darn as to whether you get a fair settlement, while FCIS does. Good insurance information to know, about FCIS.
This is a very tough subject for the Vintage Trailer owners. Agreed Value is the terms you want to see, don't expect a Stated Value policy to protect you to the "value" you state, and "pay for".
Any insurance company would be crazy to write Agreed Value policies on Vintage Trailers, without "requiring professional appraisals". It's very difficult for a professional appraiser to establish a true market value because the actual selling prices of high end trailers are not recorded, like we see for high end cars being auctioned by companies like Barrett Jackson. Maybe some day a Black/Blue Book of vintage trailer values will be established, like we have for vintage cars.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on May 17, 2015 8:10:41 GMT -8
Maybe some day a Black/Blue Book of vintage trailer values will be established, like we have for vintage cars.
Yes… that would be nice and tidy! In the mean time, a pro appraisal can help a lot, esp. if the appraiser has a track record with vintage trailers. A good agent with experience settling vintage trailer claims helps a lot also with negotiating the claim with the insurer (in this case Progressive.) That's the confidence that FCIS has given me… The agent I spoke with spoke fluently on the subject. Compared to the agent at American Adventure, who claimed I didn't really need an appraisal for an Agreed Value policy. I had to ask him 3 separate times before he admitted (on the 4th inquiry!) that a claim without an appraisal would result in the insurer resorting to depreciated "book value" sources to settle the claim! I don't like to be cynical, but it's as if he was steering me toward not bothering to get an appraisal, which would result in a cheaper settlement by the insurer. Perhaps the Shasta "reissue" trailer will be a step in the direction of establishing a Blue Book, or at least make the job of the appraiser easier. What I mean is, if there is a contemporary canned ham trailer out there of "X" $ value (like the Shasta reissue) it stands to reason that a good appraiser can use that as a starting point to establish a "comparable" value of an authentic vintage, restored canned ham. This is done all the time by appraisers in real estate markets. Of course the authentic restored canned ham would have higher value than the modern reissue, but it might help in establishing a base for valuation. The reissue is a "similar" trailer AND it has a retail price tag on it that is well known. That should, in theory, clarify things for the appraiser and insurer AND give the vintage owners a leg to stand on in a claim situation. But as always, it would have to be established in advance through appraisal and Agreed Value. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic Food for thought anyway.
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