nccamper
Administrator
Posts: 7,727
Likes: 2,866
1962 Forester- 1956 Shasta
Currently Offline
|
Post by nccamper on Mar 22, 2015 19:14:12 GMT -8
I was hooking up our camper today for a trip and the lights aren't working after sitting all winter. The truck plug connection is working fine, the wiring harness is connecting to the electric breaks which work fine. But no lights. My guess is the ground was lost. Tomorrow I plan to follow the advice above. Anything else I should try? Eventually I will take this camper apart and rewire everything to include separate grounds for each light. What I am after is a quick fix for a weekend at the coast. First you have to diagnose your problem before you can figure out a patch fix. Make up a 20 foot long 14G ground wire with alligator clips at each end. Pull the cover off your seven way plug junction box. Connect your temporary ground wire to the junction box "white, ground" terminal. Turn on the truck lights and walk around the trailer touching the ground wire to the base of any lights not working. If they light up, when the ground touches them you have found your problem. Another symptom of a bad/poor ground are bulbs that burn dimly even though they may not be turned on. This symptom is caused by the electricity trying it's best to find a ground any way possible.
Solutions are usually simple for a novice to repair, but diagnosis is why electricians charge the big bucks.
Thanks for the advice. There is no junction box because the last owner wired everything straight through to the plug. Any idea which lead at the seven way plug is usually the ground? I should be able to trace it. The lights did have the dimming issue at one point but cleaning the screws into the skin solved it early on. This camper has been on the back burner because of our Shasta...and 10 degree weather hasn't helped...but this summer it gets a refit.
|
|
John Palmer
Senior Member
Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
Posts: 1,613
Likes: 569
Currently Offline
|
Post by John Palmer on Mar 22, 2015 19:37:26 GMT -8
First you have to diagnose your problem before you can figure out a patch fix. Make up a 20 foot long 14G ground wire with alligator clips at each end. Pull the cover off your seven way plug junction box. Connect your temporary ground wire to the junction box "white, ground" terminal. Turn on the truck lights and walk around the trailer touching the ground wire to the base of any lights not working. If they light up, when the ground touches them you have found your problem. Another symptom of a bad/poor ground are bulbs that burn dimly even though they may not be turned on. This symptom is caused by the electricity trying it's best to find a ground any way possible.
Solutions are usually simple for a novice to repair, but diagnosis is why electricians charge the big bucks.
Thanks for the advice. There is no junction box because the last owner wired everything straight through to the plug. Any idea which lead at the seven way plug is usually the ground? I should be able to trace it. The lights did have the dimming issue at one point but cleaning the screws into the skin solved it early on. This camper has been on the back burner because of our Shasta...and 10 degree weather hasn't helped...but this summer it gets a refit. In a seven wire system, a WHITE (ground) is the correct color wire your looking for, unless an electrical idiot wired it previously. You just never know with previous owner stuff.
Good luck hunting, I hate cold weather, because it's usually cold, AND wet! LOL
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Mar 22, 2015 22:07:48 GMT -8
Also, if you take the 7 way plug apart, it is stamped WHITE in the plastic where the ground goes. If it's a molded plug, the ground wire should be white at the end of the cord.
Connect a small ground wire from a skin screw to the frame. That should help any grounding issues. Some of my trailers have as many as 5 grounds...
Sometimes just twisting one screw on the base plate a little will re-establish the ground. Check the light sockets for corrosion as well.
|
|
|
Post by danrhodes on Mar 23, 2015 8:04:18 GMT -8
I'm a bit confused about adding the ground wire. You are grounding a metal fixture that is secured to the skin...There's still going to be some ground return current flowing in the skin...perhaps a fraction of that in the better copper conductor. If you are trying to completely eliminate the chance of a "hot" skin, shouldn't you totally float each light base from the skin?
|
|
nccamper
Administrator
Posts: 7,727
Likes: 2,866
1962 Forester- 1956 Shasta
Currently Offline
|
Post by nccamper on Mar 23, 2015 9:32:59 GMT -8
I grounded the skin to the frame with 14g wire, made sure the screws on each light were snug, and the lights worked fine again. Grounding to the skin doesn't work well after 50 years of rust and dirt. I'll be grounding each light during the refit.
Thanks again for the advice.
|
|
bimmrr
Junior Member
Proud owner of a yellow and white 62 Shasta Compact
Posts: 83
Likes: 17
Currently Offline
|
Post by bimmrr on Apr 21, 2015 9:21:28 GMT -8
Hey all, Haven't posted for awhile as been finishing up my winter project of redoing the rear bottom half skin on my 62 Shasta Compact. That has gone well and ended up replacing some of the wood at same time. Used treated deck boards ( 1 x 6's cut down to proper size) and that worked great. Realize not same wood as original but know these will not rot. Anyway, now got a problem with any of the lights working. Have the original 7 plug connector with a 4 plug adapter to go to my Ford Escape's harness. Going to try some of the trouble shooting suggestions just read. One question I have is my existing wiring for the tail/brake lights consist of a black, red and green wires only. License plate light is green only. Based on what I have found on the site, seems I am missing a brown wire for one of the turn signal sides, don't recall which side uses a brown wire. Anyway, any other ideas on how to figure out what is going on will be appreciated. Thanks, Mike
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Apr 21, 2015 21:31:51 GMT -8
Green is normally tail lights and running lights, often labeled TM for Tail Markers. Red is Left Turn, and Brown is right. If you have black, I'm guessing Right Turn is your black wire. Most trailers have 3 wires operating the tow wiring, plus the Ground. It is fairly easy to test the wiring. I made a special 7 way connector with alligator clips: Touch each clip to the hot side to see what lights up: If you have a battery installed on the trailer, you don't need the portable: Connect the 7 way to your test socket and use the black Hot lead. Touch one of the clips to that to see what it does.
|
|
bimmrr
Junior Member
Proud owner of a yellow and white 62 Shasta Compact
Posts: 83
Likes: 17
Currently Offline
|
Post by bimmrr on Apr 22, 2015 4:38:08 GMT -8
THANKS Vikx ! I knew someone could tell this electrically challenged owner the way to check it out pretty easily !!! Regards Mike
|
|
|
Post by Teachndad on Dec 20, 2016 19:50:21 GMT -8
Also, if you take the 7 way plug apart, it is stamped WHITE in the plastic where the ground goes. If it's a molded plug, the ground wire should be white at the end of the cord. Connect a small ground wire from a skin screw to the frame. That should help any grounding issues. Some of my trailers have as many as 5 grounds... Sometimes just twisting one screw on the base plate a little will re-establish the ground. Check the light sockets for corrosion as well. Hi Vikx, I am currently electricity challenged. You mention as many as 5 grounds. 1. Are these 5 grounds to the skin used as a redundancy to the individual ground wires to the lights? 2. For the 5 grounds, did you attach each ground to a ring connector and place under a skin screw near the bottom and then run to a clean screw on the frame below? On my Rod and Reel, there is a steel braided @8" line screwed into the skin up front at the base of the front wall and then it is screwed into a frame cross member. 3. Are these still usable/serviceable? The end loop of the braided line is bolted at the crossmember but the bolt is badly rusted. In the meantime, I ran from the same screw in the skin, a piece of 12 gauge wire to a new screw mount in the frame. I think this appears to have made tail lights work, but not the running lights. 4. Is 12 gauge too thick as a ground? I see a lot of references to 14 gauge as a ground. To make things interesting, I unmounted the running light assemblies and of the three I unmounted, they all had different colors coming from inside the trailer. It was a rainbow of colors - red, white and black all connected with pinch connectors. Cheers, Rod
|
|
|
Post by Teachndad on Dec 20, 2016 20:03:17 GMT -8
I have another question regarding the "testing machine". That you shared above. Just to confirm from the image, it looks like you took the black(negative) clip and clipped to the frame as the ground and then took an alligator clip from the modified harness and touched the red(positive) clip from the battery to send electricity into the wiring harness to the trailer. Can we use a Shumacher charger like the one pictured below that is plugged in and use the leads to test, rather than the stagnant battery that you used? I guess, the other option would be to pull the battery out of my minivan and hook up jumper cables to it. Wouldn't that create a "testing machine" as what you have made? Thanks, Rod
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Dec 20, 2016 23:56:53 GMT -8
I will try to help:
A battery charger will not work as a testing battery. Most have a shut off if not connected to a battery, so will not work as a 12 volt source of power.
Yes, when in doubt, GROUND IT AGAIN. I use 16 ga from skin screw to frame. A ground is a ground is a ground. I can not comment on your trailer, but if anything is corroded or rusty, clean it up and/or change the bolt.
Pinch connectors are the pits. They fail more often than not. Colors mean nothing. Continuity does. Go slow and you will do OK.
I recommend a simple electrical tester. 12 volts, 110 volts and continuity. Pretty cheap testor these days...
|
|
|
Post by Teachndad on Dec 23, 2016 21:44:54 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Teachndad on Dec 23, 2016 22:31:17 GMT -8
Pinch connectors are the pits. They fail more often than not. Colors mean nothing. Continuity does. Go slow and you will do OK. Vikx, Instead of pinch connectors, what do you recommend? Thanks, Rod
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Dec 23, 2016 22:35:17 GMT -8
Instead of Pinch connectors:
Wing nuts inside a J box. Always accessible and weather resistant. Also, NEVER make connections inside a wall cavity.
|
|
|
Post by vikx on Dec 25, 2016 22:27:12 GMT -8
REPEAT: It is against RV code to make connections inside a wall. (not to mention houses) It is very easy to add a J box anytime you need to connect wiring. Safe, secure and accessible. Don't make the mistake of thinking you will never need to work on the wiring. Additions/corrections and just plain fun reworking are bound to happen.
|
|