man314
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Post by man314 on Jan 12, 2015 17:55:35 GMT -8
Anyone shellac their birch panels before cut and install?
Everything I've seen so far shows cutting and installing, then shellac once in the trailer. I've also read where it was recommended to put one coat on asap so the birch doesn't start degrading.
Down side to coating in full sheets?? Seems like it would be easier to get a smooth even coat laid out flat.
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Post by universalexports on Jan 12, 2015 18:21:00 GMT -8
not sure about your question, but I cut some of mine, then shellac, then installed in the trailer.
I guess a down side would be you would have to shellac a whole sheet, but probably will not use all of the whole sheet, so you wasted some shellac and energy doing it, and it aint easy.
another down side is if you shellac, then cut a few things could happen, the saw bottom guides could scratch it, I can definitely see that happening or the wood splinters bad, now that piece you spent all that time on shellacking is ruined.
not sure about how well you could mark on shellac for your cut, and the mark would then be there if you didnt cut all of it off. all in all it sounds like a bad idea.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Jan 12, 2015 18:26:18 GMT -8
I do three coats of amber, on full "uncut" sheets, laying flat on horses. Make sure they are in the shade, not sun. Then cut to size, fabricate, fit, install, then one to two more coats of Shellac to match.
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man314
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Post by man314 on Jan 12, 2015 19:34:51 GMT -8
John, any issues with bottom of saw scratching finish?
Part of of this question has to do with the overall sequence of rebuilding. I've pulled out kitchen base cabinets and will rebuild / refinish outside of the trailer. To do that, I had to open up the rear end. It had pretty bad water damage. We have removed all old flooring. Would be nice to install floor while interior is cleared out. Don't want to drip shellac all over new floor.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Jan 12, 2015 20:08:55 GMT -8
John, any issues with bottom of saw scratching finish? Part of of this question has to do with the overall sequence of rebuilding. I've pulled out kitchen base cabinets and will rebuild / refinish outside of the trailer. To do that, I had to open up the rear end. It had pretty bad water damage. We have removed all old flooring. Would be nice to install floor while interior is cleared out. Don't want to drip shellac all over new floor. I use a router for most of my paneling cuts, and it has a large nylon base plate.
After you refinish a couple of trailers you will be looking for anything that has even a remote chance of making your life easier. Striping, Sanding, Shellacing are not fun UPSIDE DOWN, fact is they are not fun for me anytime. I have found that anything that can be done "outside the trailer" is easier for me. It's tough to get out of bed in the morning after any upside down refinish activity.
The beauty of shellac is any scratches or rubs can be lightly sanded, and "feathered in" with more shellac to match. It's the reason I do not do all five coats, before it's installed. After the third coat, the forth and fifth coat are easy because they no longer just sink in. I do all my shellac with a small piece of cotton T-Shirt, and the French Polishing application.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Jan 12, 2015 21:12:31 GMT -8
It seems easy enough to shellac a wall piece that won't be arched. But would bending damage the finish if you go even slightly passed the "soak in" phase?
I agree about working above your head. It's a giant mess no matter how carefully the shellac is handled.
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Jan 12, 2015 21:27:42 GMT -8
It seems easy enough to shellac a wall piece that won't be arched. But would bending damage the finish if you go even slightly passed the "soak in" phase? I agree about working above your head. It's a giant mess no matter how carefully the shellac is handled. I'm not sure, but I have shellac'd the panels, and bent the paneling during installation and never have had one problem with the shellac cracking, or pealing.
One of the advantages to shellac is that each coat melts the previous coat and just adds to the thickness. On normal painting you will read very specific instructions about "Recoat Times", too soon, or too long on the time frame for the air temperature and humidity is not good. Shellac is not as sensitive to the recoat time, as long as it dry. Make sure you allow at least a day per coat drying time, for coats three, four, and five.
Never allow the hot sun to hit freshly done panels, "it will curdle the new shellac" like spoiled milk. After it's fully cured, sun will not damage it. If you have this problem, just block sand the area, and recoat with two or three more coats.
Always shellac in the shade, and the coolest part of the day, coldest part of the year. Heat evaporates the alcohol "faster" and makes your life miserable.
It's way we use paint reducers that are formulated for specific application temperatures when you spray normal automotive paint. Higher ambient temperatures require slower drying reducers for paint.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Jan 13, 2015 5:00:21 GMT -8
It seems easy enough to shellac a wall piece that won't be arched. But would bending damage the finish if you go even slightly passed the "soak in" phase? I agree about working above your head. It's a giant mess no matter how carefully the shellac is handled. I'm not sure, but I have shellac'd the panels, and bent the paneling during installation and never have had one problem with the shellac cracking, or pealing.
One of the advantages to shellac is that each coat melts the previous coat and just adds to the thickness. On normal painting you will read very specific instructions about "Recoat Times", too soon, or too long on the time frame for the air temperature and humidity is not good. Shellac is not as sensitive to the recoat time, as long as it dry. Make sure you allow at least a day per coat drying time, for coats three, four, and five.
Never allow the hot sun to hit freshly done panels, "it will curdle the new shellac" like spoiled milk. After it's fully cured, sun will not damage it. If you have this problem, just block sand the area, and recoat with two or three more coats.
Always shellac in the shade, and the coolest part of the day, coldest part of the year. Heat evaporates the alcohol "faster" and makes your life miserable.
It's way we use paint reducers that are formulated for specific application temperatures when you spray normal automotive paint. Higher ambient temperatures require slower drying reducers for paint.
Im going to try your method John... Yes you can teach an old dog new tricks!  |
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lakewoodgirl
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Post by lakewoodgirl on Feb 4, 2015 20:50:32 GMT -8
I cut, shellac, then install. But, only shellac about 3-4 coats. Enough where the birch isn't soaking it up any more and it starts to shine. I think the initial smooth brush strokes are the most important and it's much easier to work in an open space where you can get good movement with the brush for application. But, that's just me. I enjoy this part and like finding a rhythm. Must be my background in art? Who knows.
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man314
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Post by man314 on Feb 5, 2015 5:34:01 GMT -8
We have been putting 3 coats Amber, cut the sheet (no scratching or issues), install panel, then we will clear coat once installed Thx for the advice!
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goshawks
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Post by goshawks on Feb 5, 2015 7:11:48 GMT -8
I've found that shellac while it gives a great finish, is somewhat easily damaged by moisture , so if you are doing outside exposed pieces, such as the screen door, it should be given a coat of varnish.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Feb 5, 2015 13:00:10 GMT -8
I've found that shellac while it gives a great finish, is somewhat easily damaged by moisture , so if you are doing outside exposed pieces, such as the screen door, it should be given a coat of varnish. put anything on top of shellac other than more shellac. Varnish will not mix with it and then if you need to touch it up you can't because of the varnish. Shellac does not care about moisture. It only cares about alcohol because it is alcohol based... Sorta like me...  |
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goshawks
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Post by goshawks on Feb 5, 2015 14:41:41 GMT -8
You are absolutely wrong we varnish over shellac all the time. If you are having problems with varnish on shellac then aren't using de-waxed shellac. It will still work but some times you will get bubbles as the varnish will 'puddle' on the wax in cheaper shellac. If you think it isn't effected put some out in a wet place and see what will happen. As far as alcohol, all I can is yes alcohol will affect your judgment. ;>) Here's a test get yourself a nice tall cold one... set it on your best piece of shellac finished furniture, leave it over night , and you'll see the error of your way. That in a nut shell is why they invented coasters back in your time! |
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John Palmer
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Post by John Palmer on Feb 5, 2015 18:27:59 GMT -8
My vote is Never Varnish over Shellac. It will ruin any chance you have of a touch up. I have never had a problem due to moisture and shellac, so the varnish is a fix for a problem that I have not yet experienced.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Feb 5, 2015 18:50:02 GMT -8
I think those coasters were invented a little before my time. And if you do have wood surfaces that are horizontal then yes you want to protect it from wet drinks. I would do that no matter what type of transparent finish I used. Even if it was painted I would protect it.
I have lightly sanded many of my screen doors and just gave them a few coats of shellac and they look absolutely beautiful. I've never had a problem... Varnish is great stuff. I used it on boats years ago. I just won't put it over shellac for the reasons John and I have pointed out. One of the beautiful things about shellac is how easy it is to repair. But not if it is covered with something else like varnish.
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