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Post by wisconsinjoe on Nov 3, 2014 14:17:43 GMT -8
Having started a private discussion with BigBill on the subject, I have decided to publicly present this topic: building a new vintage camper from scratch. I’m not talking about stuff like the reissue of the Shasta which seems to be marketed to the modern amenity-seeking consumer, but rather building from scratch a vintage style canned ham that stays true to the originals in spirit. Having restored a 1963 Friendship Vacationaire (with its framing rot and scary electrical), I am motivated by my disappointment in the shortcomings of design and construction methods in the originals. Yes, I know that they were built using the best they had and they were production pieces designed to make money yet put products in the hands of ordinary people. Nevertheless, once you tear inside these campers,it’s hard (for me) to ignore things that could have been done better.
My plan is to salvage the Herr windows and basic frame from a ruined 70s model Jayco and build a new canned ham of my own design, based on the layout of our Vacationaire, featuring its double opposing rear sofas that turn into a nearly king size bed(room). I will use birch or maple plywood interior, lightweight cabinetry, vintage style fixtures with LED bulbs, a 12 volt electrical system running from a deep cycle battery with converter/charger, a Fantastic Fan, new LP/120v fridge and LP stove. No microwave, sound system, TV, air conditioner, etc. I want to make a camper that can easily boondock.
Bill and I have been discussing an idea to make stronger rafters by capturing steel tubing between two dadoed and glued 2x pieces of wood, something that should be able to better withstand these heavy snowfalls we get in Wisconsin.
So, I am wondering what you folks would do if you were taking this on. Are there improvements that you made once you tore into your campers for repair? Who better to ask these questions than all you folks who know what it is like to peer into the guts of this great hobby?
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Post by bigbill on Nov 3, 2014 15:30:37 GMT -8
Below is a copy of my suggested rafter for a very strong scratch built trailer.
This is just a thought that I have considered but never done. Take 2x2 route out a groove that would accept a one inch steel thin wall tube (.068 or so) half way in then take another board and do it the same way, now spread the grooves with glue insert the tube and clamp it together. This would give you a rafter of incredible strength and would not add a huge amount of weight. You would want to leave 3/4 of an inch below the tube to accept screws and staples or twisty nails. This would never sag plus would support a reasonable amount of weight,it would be way stronger than alum angle.
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mntrailer66
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Post by mntrailer66 on Nov 4, 2014 3:45:16 GMT -8
Hello WisconsinJoe, I am very interested in this and have been trying to talk my husband into a sort of homemade replica for some time, give it the look of the vintage travel trailer but without all the work of a careful take down and rebuild. Just build from scratch on a new frame maybe using some vintage parts and some new, To tell you the truth I did not think the idea would fly on this forumn.
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Post by wisconsinjoe on Nov 4, 2014 5:15:59 GMT -8
I too was worried about offending folks here. But then again, if we want to build a "retro" camper, who better to ask for help than people who know how these things go together. I'm a professional residential designer and builder by trade, but I would not have known much about these trailers had I not tore into my own 1963 vintage. The concept of building "from the inside out" is not obvious. That's why we see so many Craigslist ads proclaiming "already gutted!" Which, obviously means already ruined.
Still, to do the job right, I think you need real vintage windows. If I could buy new Herr jalousie windows I would. Right now I'm having trouble finding a door.
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Post by bigbill on Nov 4, 2014 5:59:44 GMT -8
I think you will find this forum is very open to any type of trailer rebuild or total construction from scratch if you take take the time to go back through all the post you will find many of us talking about building from scratch. About the only thing involving trailers that I feel this board is not in favor of is the people who buy a trailer with visible signs of deterioration then give it a coat of paint and sell it as rebuilt (lipstick on a pig) to an unknowing soul. You will find people here that restore to original, people that rebuild but modernize, people that raise roofs to allow more head room, and people who make about any other changes you can think of. I may not like how you paint your trailer pink with purple pok-a-dots but I still respect the time a talent that it took to do a proper and safe build or rebuild. I think you will find that most people here feel the same way.
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on Nov 4, 2014 7:10:48 GMT -8
There are "restores" and actual "rebuilds" here. My son keeps telling it me it would be easier to just build a new one. I think he's right.
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Post by vintagebruce on Nov 4, 2014 8:17:45 GMT -8
My 1950 Travelo is 23' long and is so overbuilt that it just would not be logical to try and use it as a pull behind camper. It also has the whole rear end detached from the frame. I am considering taking it apart and using portions of the smooth skin the windows, birch panels, cabinetry and other vintage pieces and making a very short facsimile of a vintage look canned ham or even a very short bread loaf. Being aware that I am not a design engineer, this camper would be for personal satisfaction as well as a practice run for rebuilds of my 2 Shastas. I would not consider selling it, in case it is less than aerodynamic, although I believe I could build to safety requirements for a Title and tag. I would enjoy following anyone who undertakes what you are suggesting.
I believe you might find a larger pre second gen camper with all the vintage donor parts and pieces you would require for the same price as a second gen donor that would produce a cooler final look.
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ladywendolyn
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Post by ladywendolyn on Nov 4, 2014 8:24:14 GMT -8
Last night as I was scraping goop off my trailer, I was remembering that when we first started this journey, I was going to buy a tear-drop kit to build one from scratch. My husband talked me into a canned ham rebuild because he said it would be less work..bahahahah!
Seriously though, my trailer needs so much work, that it is pretty much going to be a new build except the frame, door, windows, appliances, lights etc. But much of that I have had to track down and buy on e-bay. I think one of the keys that will make my trailer look great, is the time and money I have put into tracking down every missing original part.
So.. my trailer will be vintage correct, on a vintage frame, with all vintage parts except the wood, and possibly skin will be brand new....
I like to think of her as a 50 year old woman who is going to get a lot of plastic surgery! Crappy surgeon.. everyone will know she has had work. Great surgeon... only she and her doctor know the truth.
I will try to be a great surgeon!
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Nov 4, 2014 8:40:38 GMT -8
I fully support your trailer "build from new".
I believe that you would need some vintage parts to make it look correct. The door hinge (and handle) needs to be vintage to allow for a "correct looking" screen door. The windows also really date a trailer. I would never build a new trailer using Jailousie windows. They have to be the worse window design ever, LOL. Make sure you get the drip caps from an old trailer, they are heavier and have the correct shape.
I would start with a 1950's trailer that had salvageable early Hehr standard, or Hehr Clearview windows. If they have the push out regulators, you could convert them to crank regulator style with the new VTS reproduction parts.
The other reason you would want to start with a early trailer is for the early title and registration. You could run a early vintage (Y.O.M.) license plate, and the resale value would be much higher in the end. Ask anyone that owns a REAL aluminum 1965 COBRA, compared to a fiberglass clone.
I would build "curved" wood truss rafters, using a hard wood and two pieces assembled at a right angle.
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Post by bigbill on Nov 4, 2014 12:05:16 GMT -8
John that or build them like the new Wooden I beams, but what we were talking about was a way to keep the roof flat with out making it too thick yet gain strength. I am sure there are many ways and what we are trying to come up with is a low cost reasonably priced, light weight roof rafter that will support snow load, road vibration and shake, also stand up to a/c load while looking like a canned ham. The one we mentioned would allow 3" of foam all the way across the roof.
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Nov 4, 2014 17:23:52 GMT -8
John that or build them like the new Wooden I beams, but what we were talking about was a way to keep the roof flat with out making it too thick yet gain strength. I am sure there are many ways and what we are trying to come up with is a low cost reasonably priced, light weight roof rafter that will support snow load, road vibration and shake, also stand up to a/c load while looking like a canned ham. The one we mentioned would allow 3" of foam all the way across the roof. BigBill, I'm sure you could come up with a better roof beam than was used originally. I think that you could have a 3/4" rise, and a 3/4" drop in the I-Beam. I doubt the 3/4" drop would be noticeable on the headliner inside. It would surely stiffen the roof structure. Too much rise, and you will run into "puckering" problems when you skin the trailer. I'd only do the rise in the flat area of the roof, not the curved.
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Post by bigbill on Nov 4, 2014 18:50:06 GMT -8
John that or build them like the new Wooden I beams, but what we were talking about was a way to keep the roof flat with out making it too thick yet gain strength. I am sure there are many ways and what we are trying to come up with is a low cost reasonably priced, light weight roof rafter that will support snow load, road vibration and shake, also stand up to a/c load while looking like a canned ham. The one we mentioned would allow 3" of foam all the way across the roof. BigBill, I'm sure you could come up with a better roof beam than was used originally. I think that you could have a 3/4" rise, and a 3/4" drop in the I-Beam. I doubt the 3/4" drop would be noticeable on the headliner inside. It would surely stiffen the roof structure. Too much rise, and you will run into "puckering" problems when you skin the trailer. I'd only do the rise in the flat area of the roof, not the curved. We were talking about building a trailer from scratch so the 3" rafter would be allowed for in the design and it would allow 3" of foam insulation clear to the wall and if it didn't sag it should drain like these did new. If he wanted a crown it could be added on top and yes I understand about the compound curve in the roof at both ends. It really comes down to what a person wants. If I was building a trailer from scratch i would start out with a tube space frame using .125 wall tube then a floor then 2" walls sitting on top of floor and everything would be glued and screwed together. It would most likely gain about 400 to 500 pounds but it would out last our grandkids
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Post by vintagebruce on Nov 5, 2014 18:25:36 GMT -8
I too was worried about offending folks here. But then again, if we want to build a "retro" camper, who better to ask for help than people who know how these things go together. I'm a professional residential designer and builder by trade, but I would not have known much about these trailers had I not tore into my own 1963 vintage. The concept of building "from the inside out" is not obvious. That's why we see so many Craigslist ads proclaiming "already gutted!" Which, obviously means already ruined. Still, to do the job right, I think you need real vintage windows. If I could buy new Herr jalousie windows I would. Right now I'm having trouble finding a door. Just ran across these and remembered your comment about finding a door. orangecounty.craigslist.org/rvs/4732232903.html
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Post by vikx on Nov 5, 2014 22:49:38 GMT -8
I feel like I built a *new* 58 Cardinal after the frame up build! (including a newer frame) There are a few original pieces of cabinetry and the windows but the rest is new. I see nothing wrong in building from scratch, it will still be vintage compared to the new offshoots.
And build your own door. The are one of the easiest (and most rewarding) parts of the build. I like doors.
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Post by wisconsinjoe on Nov 6, 2014 6:45:15 GMT -8
Vintagebruce and Vikx, thanks. Wish i could find a good vintage door near Wisconsin. But now I'm intrigued about building one myself. Wondering how to make the hinge for both door and screen door as well as general construction components. I do have access to a great sheet metal fabrication shop. And, where to find a vintage style latch. Tips anyone?
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