annbclay
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Post by annbclay on May 18, 2014 17:10:19 GMT -8
I've read forum comments and been told other things about why a camper wags. I have pulled trailers of many sizes before and never once had this happen so it is a new learning experience for me.
I have a 1961 shasta compact and am pulling it with a Nissan Juke (yes for those of you who know...it is a UK juke where they rate this model for a non braked tow capacity of around 1300 lbs).
my question is which of these actually will cause her to wag if I go over 50mph?
-too heavy tongue weight? -too low tongue weight? -car hitch too low and camper not level? -trailer tongue too short? any other ideas and/or all of the above?
Thanks, Ann B
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on May 18, 2014 18:26:06 GMT -8
Uneven distribution of weight is usually what causes the sway of the back end. If the back end is too heavy, I know from experience, it will sway! Also, check and make sure that you have trailer tires and not regular car tires. Regular tire sidewalls aren't strong enough and will cause a side to side bounce and eventually blowout.
Also, the specs on the early Compacts list them at 1015 lbs but most agree they actually weigh a little more. Loaded, you are really pushing your tow capacity. And if you have a CVT transmission, beware! I towed a teardrop with my Rogue (around 800lbs, tv rated at 1500lbs)and I don't know if towing had anything to do with it because there was a factory problem, but I had to have my tranny replaced. Stick to the flatlands would be my suggestion.
I know what a Juke is! I just traded in my faithful Rogue, the Juke's big brother, and it was a bittersweet goodbye.
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Post by bigbill on May 18, 2014 18:26:27 GMT -8
Tongue to light needs to be 10% of total weight. trailer should be level. Tires should be trailer tires not car tires and they should be inflated to the max pressure listed on the sidewall. The vehicle you are towing with is nearly overloaded so the tires onit must be inflated to the max pressure listed on the sidewall also. This is a very small vehicle to be towing that trailer it can be done but everything must be right or you could have very serious results. BECAREFUL Try to avoid severe cross winds. In this application a sway bar might be a good thing and if the trailer drops the rear of the vehicle down very much you may need an equalizer hitch.
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annbclay
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Post by annbclay on May 18, 2014 19:03:24 GMT -8
Thanks everyone, I will check on the tires, not sure about those. The weight load to towing capacity is a question which I have researched quite a bit. many, many Juke owners are towing as much or more on a variety of terrain with no problems. The thinking seems to be that Nissan is under rating the car. There are several much less powerful cars, like the Matrix and Mazda 3 which are rated for 2000 lbs. Why a car with more power and torque is not rated at all to tow in the US and lower than those in the UK is a question I'd love to hear answered. The consensus seems to be "lawyers". I take mine out of automatic and actually shift manually. I've driven a manual all my life, this is my first automatic ever (and I'm over 50) I feel much better shifting manually in this situation and always keep it out of overdrive. The one time I pulled her (coming home from buying her) I realized when I got home that I needed to flip the ball on the hitch so that the cars hitch sat higher and will then allow her to be level upon hook up.l. Hopefully that was what caused the wag. I will go weigh her before my next trip and be certain I check correct tongue weight % as well as tire pressure in all.
Any other tips are welcome... I take it no one feels a short trailer tongue is the issue so no need to put money towards that change.
Thanks again! Happy Camping.
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yas
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Post by yas on May 18, 2014 19:44:16 GMT -8
Why a car with more power and torque is not rated at all to tow in the US and lower than those in the UK is a question I'd love to hear answered. Power is only one part of the tow rating equation. Tires, wheelbase, suspension, stability and braking are all part of the rating. And like you said - lawyers.
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SusieQ
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Post by SusieQ on May 18, 2014 19:53:32 GMT -8
Many people tow with vehicles not rated for towing, especially in the teardrop world. You will see Mini-Coopers, VW bugs and two-seater sports cars towing teardrops weighing 500- 1000lbs. However, it's technically illegal. Recently, I was shopping for a new tow vehicle and I inquired about a Dodge Challenger and commented that I was sure it had enough power to tow my Compact. I was told that they were only rated for 1000 lbs and that no matter what engine they had, Hemi or not, they (salesperson) were only allowed to say that the vehicle was rated for 1000 lbs. Yes, the legal and liability issue is a big deal in the U.S.
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on May 19, 2014 9:40:28 GMT -8
Ann… Hi,
Before I bought my trailer, I participated in a very, very lengthy thread at a Subaru owner's forum regarding my intention to tow with my Outback H6. There were some very sage and experienced towers there who advised me NOT to do what I was intending to do with my V6 Outback. But there were just as many who said go ahead and do it, based on specs on paper and not real world conditions. Bigbill and SusieQ are very correct in that, if you tow with this vehicle and trailer combination, EVERYTHING must be right or you may experience some real drama along the way: that is, balance, tires, weight and especially speed. Other things to consider are the health of your transmission: so outside temperature and severity of grades can be a lethal blow to your transmission, especially if you do not have an auxiliary cooler for it. I would also be concerned with absolute tongue weight. The manufacturer may have a limit on that and for a car frame it's even more important than the overall weight of what you're pulling. Some manufacturers, like Subaru, strictly forbid the use of weight distributing hitches; the frame simply can't take it over time. And braking: do you have working electric brakes on the Shasta? I ended up with an '03 Jeep Grand Cherokee, with a 4.7L HO V8, I picked up locally for about $5K, in fantastic mechanical condition.
If you plan on short trips, on flat grade at very slow speeds, then you might test your Shasta/Juke combination… but in my humble opinion, it's not a towing vehicle for anything, except a bike rack.
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annbclay
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Post by annbclay on May 19, 2014 10:22:48 GMT -8
Ok thank you all for the dose of realism. I REALLY REALLY REALLY LOVE MY Juke and don't want to have to swap it out for something else, and I also love my Shasta and am looking forward to excursions with it. Guess I may have to make a tough decision, just goes to show the old adage "don't let your possessions posses you" rings true. I suppose adventure and fun is more important than a car, but still....
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chametzoo
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Post by chametzoo on May 19, 2014 12:14:10 GMT -8
Ok thank you all for the dose of realism. I REALLY REALLY REALLY LOVE MY Juke and don't want to have to swap it out for something else, and I also love my Shasta and am looking forward to excursions with it. Guess I may have to make a tough decision, just goes to show the old adage "don't let your possessions posses you" rings true. I suppose adventure and fun is more important than a car, but still.... Ann… then definitely keep your Juke… it's a fun looking car and probably very useful too. Maybe work toward a dedicated towing vehicle… or go into a sharing arrangement with a friend (a good friend!). Getting my Jeep was the farthest thing from my mind!… but if I wanted the trailer, I knew I had to do it. You can get something very solid, like an older, but well loved truck. Insurance shouldn't be too much on such a vehicle. Even a truck with modest power (like a 4+ liter V6) will at least give you the truck frame, the wheel base/stance that you need for towing. If your towing demands are modest in terms of how far you travel, weather and grade… something like that will work very well. If you increase your towing demands to traveling into the mountains in the heat of the summer, you can add a transmission cooler to your engine… that's a pretty simple thing to do and not pricey at all. You also want a transmission where you can either select a gear or a switch to defeat the transmission's torque converter ('overdrive off switch'). That way you can lock into a lower gear for the grades, without the automatic transmission "hunting" for gears (excessive shifting, equals a lot more heat build up in the transmission). We want to see you enjoy that Shasta Compact, but also get there with minimal drama :-)
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Post by bigbill on May 19, 2014 12:52:02 GMT -8
Ok thank you all for the dose of realism. I REALLY REALLY REALLY LOVE MY Juke and don't want to have to swap it out for something else, and I also love my Shasta and am looking forward to excursions with it. Guess I may have to make a tough decision, just goes to show the old adage "don't let your possessions posses you" rings true. I suppose adventure and fun is more important than a car, but still.... Ann… then definitely keep your Juke… it's a fun looking car and probably very useful too. Maybe work toward a dedicated towing vehicle… or go into a sharing arrangement with a friend (a good friend!). Getting my Jeep was the farthest thing from my mind!… but if I wanted the trailer, I knew I had to do it. You can get something very solid, like an older, but well loved truck. Insurance shouldn't be too much on such a vehicle. Even a truck with modest power (like a 4+ liter V6) will at least give you the truck frame, the wheel base/stance that you need for towing. If your towing demands are modest in terms of how far you travel, weather and grade… something like that will work very well. If you increase your towing demands to traveling into the mountains in the heat of the summer, you can add a transmission cooler to your engine… that's a pretty simple thing to do and not pricey at all. You also want a transmission where you can either select a gear or a switch to defeat the transmission's torque converter ('overdrive off switch'). That way you can lock into a lower gear for the grades, without the automatic transmission "hunting" for gears (excessive shifting, equals a lot more heat build up in the transmission). We want to see you enjoy that Shasta Compact, but also get there with minimal drama :-) What we really want you to do is have fun, and enjoy life not wind up in a hospital or even worse. You are right at or exceeding the limits of your vehicle so be very careful and take the time to make the right decisions. We want you to take many trips and spend years enjoying your trailer so that you can post all of them here for us to share with you. Good luck and may God be with you.
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annbclay
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Post by annbclay on May 19, 2014 15:00:48 GMT -8
I do plan to go to the mountains, I live in SC and HATE the summer heat & humidity, I also joined "Women on the Fly" and hope to head westward at some point for one of the fly fishing get togethers - truly an adventure! I will look into finding another tow vehicle but the idea of that addition to possessions is not enticing. I'm in downsizing mode! I will say that my Juke does allow me to go into a sport mode that has some extra turbo power as well as letting me shift manually. I did that the entire first trip. I kept it out of 6th gear overdrive and really paid attention to my shifting and rpms. I grew up driving a manual transmission, as a matter of fact this is my first automatic ever and I'm as vintage as my little Shasta! My sister says I went over to the dark side when I went automatic. She could be right! She is still driving a manual, maybe the last American ever who didn't HAVE to have one! Thanks all, I do plan to tow safely, I've seen too many tragedies in my day, many with trailers, not to be careful. This is a wonderful forum. Happy Glamping!
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on May 19, 2014 19:37:26 GMT -8
I have tried it "both ways".
I towed a single axle race car trailer to 2000 miles to Denver and back to So. Cal. with a small sized four door SUV. It had a 2.7L V6 for power. It got about 22 MPG without the trailer, and only 16 MPG while towing. As you would expect, it was "overloaded, and over worked".
The next was vehicle was a F150 four door truck with a 5.4L V8. It tows the same weight race car and trailer like nothing is behind it. But it gets 16 MPG "with, or without" the trailer.
Small tow vehicles are not efficient when towing, but the make good week day commuter vehicles.
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