mocamino
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Post by mocamino on Mar 21, 2024 9:48:33 GMT -8
I'm a bit concerned about the clearance on our 67 Ozark given the amount of overhang behind the axle. You can see here, it rides pretty low. exterior left side by mocamino, on Flickr It has 195/65R15 tires on it right now. The leaf springs are on top of what I assume is the original axle, which appears to have about a 2" drop. Fortunately it has substantial drag guards at the rear of the frame. That's a good thing, as it dragged a bit on our driveway when we brought it home. drag guard by mocamino, on Flickr There is plenty of room inside the wheel well, above and to the side. It's getting new tires anyway, so I was thinking I could go to at least 205/75R15 tires - maybe 225/75R15 if clearance will allow. The 205's would gain an inch of clearance just in sidewall height and the 225's would net 1.5". The tires that are on it right now have a 91 load rating - only about 1300 lbs each! I know car tires have a much higher margin of error than trailer tires, but that's only 2600 lbs total load. The camper, loaded with our stuff, is going to be pretty close to that, possibly a little over. I'll feel a lot better if I can get 225's under there and still be able to change a tire on the side of the road. The 225's would be rated 102, or 1874 lbs. MUCH better. So, what if just bigger tires don't lift it enough? If I read my search results correctly, my other options would be new springs with more lift or some lift blocks. I don't want to try to re-arch these springs. Frankly, I'm probably replacing the springs anyway because they have 57 years of rust on them and probably need to go. Are lift blocks considered a valid method? Obviously they'd need to be built properly so they stay in place, etc. Anyway, that's my thought process on the clearance challenge. Is there anything else I need to consider? EDIT: Obviously a replacement axle that doesn't have a drop would be an option as well. I hope to not need to replace the axle, but I will if necessary.
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Post by vikx on Mar 22, 2024 12:06:12 GMT -8
How is the axle placed? If it's on top of the springs, you can drop it below the springs and gain about 3-4 inches. Might be just the ticket.
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mocamino
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Post by mocamino on Mar 22, 2024 12:21:05 GMT -8
How is the axle placed? If it's on top of the springs, you can drop it below the springs and gain about 3-4 inches. Might be just the ticket. The axle is already below the springs. No easy way out for me. 🤕
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Post by Teachndad on Mar 23, 2024 6:39:23 GMT -8
I will preface my response with this. I have limited knowledge of axles and suspensions. Do you have a matching wheel from some other vehicle that might fit the bolt pattern on the OzarK and it's a 225? Maybe install it and see if it fits into that wheel well if you ever need to do a side of the road tire change. Even an inch of lift that way is still and inch with the new tires you are planning for. Those low liner designed trailers have always intrigued me. A plus for getting it into a garage and a minus for dragging it's hiney in and out of driveways. Member Getnold, used longer shackles on her 57 Westerner. Maybe she will chime in on how that worked to lift the trailer. IMHO, The art will be to raise the trailer with whatever method is safely possible and not have the trailer look goofy. I would think 2 or 3 inches would still look appropriate. The profile now looks really cool. I will give you that, but I am not driving it around out in the world. I personally find the low rider look very attractive. One other thought I had was: Can the rear drag guards be shortened at all, but still stop the rear from dragging the rear bumper? For those lurking and not knowledgeable about these low rider frames, they look like this. The floor is "dropped". As an example, the image below is from a '69 Aristocrat Lo- Liner similar to the Nomad. You can find more images in this thread: vintagetrailertalk.freeforums.net/thread/9014/1969-aristocrat-lo-liner-rebuild like this one: or this one. I recommend clicking on any of the images in the above linked thread. It takes you to the OP's album with more pix.You can find more pictures of the frame than were posted in the restoration thread. Just my 2 cents. Rod
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mocamino
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Post by mocamino on Mar 23, 2024 8:25:57 GMT -8
Thanks, Teachndad. All very good points. I like the low look, too. It makes entry easier as well, but preventing damage is more important. It's definitely getting taller tires, and will likely get new springs. I'll add small blocks after those two changes if it's still riding too low.
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newin62
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Post by newin62 on Mar 23, 2024 14:31:58 GMT -8
You have a very attractive trailer and It has beautiful lines. I love the look of the lo-riders but I mostly only see the Aristocrats and Shastas. They have a very distinctive mid century modern look about them.
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mocamino
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Post by mocamino on Mar 23, 2024 16:15:46 GMT -8
You have a very attractive trailer and It has beautiful lines. I love the look of the lo-riders but I mostly only see the Aristocrats and Shastas. They have a very distinctive mid century modern look about them. Thank you!
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Mar 24, 2024 5:15:22 GMT -8
First thing that strikes me is the way undersized tires but, aren't these the frames where the tire can rub on the spring mount? Gotta watch that.
Blocks and or rearched springs are a viable option. But if looking for more than 3 or 4 inches a non dropped axle is probably a better solution.
If Teachndad pictures are accurate, it appears that the front mount of the spring can be modified for some extra height. Drilling a new set of holes for the front spring eye may be viable, moving the eye down 3 inches should net about 1.5 inches of lift.
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Post by Teachndad on Mar 24, 2024 5:27:46 GMT -8
First thing that strikes me is the way undersized tires but, aren't these the frames where the tire can rub on the spring mount? Gotta watch that. Blocks and or rearched springs are a viable option. But if looking for more than 3 or 4 inches a non dropped axle is probably a better solution. If Teachndad pictures are accurate, it appears that the front mount of the spring can be modified for some extra height. Drilling a new set of holes for the front spring eye may be viable, moving the eye down 3 inches should net about 1.5 inches of lift. Thanks for adding to the conversation. I want to clarify that the pictures I posted are from an Aristocrat trailer, not the Nomad that is the focus of the thread. I only pointed out the drop floor frame pix as the Aristocrat floor design was similar to the Nomad. I have since edited my post above to now indicate that the frame images are from an Aristocrat. As to the suspension design in my post above, I don't know if it mirrors what's on the Nomad or if its different. Mocamino can enlighten us. Sorry about the confusion. Rod
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mocamino
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Post by mocamino on Mar 24, 2024 6:20:07 GMT -8
First thing that strikes me is the way undersized tires but, aren't these the frames where the tire can rub on the spring mount? Gotta watch that. Blocks and or rearched springs are a viable option. But if looking for more than 3 or 4 inches a non dropped axle is probably a better solution. If Teachndad pictures are accurate, it appears that the front mount of the spring can be modified for some extra height. Drilling a new set of holes for the front spring eye may be viable, moving the eye down 3 inches should net about 1.5 inches of lift. Thanks for adding to the conversation. I want to clarify that the pictures I posted are from an Aristocrat trailer, not the Nomad that is the focus of the thread. I only pointed out the drop floor frame pix as the Aristocrat floor design was similar to the Nomad. I have since edited my post above to now indicate that the frame images are from an Aristocrat. As to the suspension design in my post above, I don't know if it mirrors what's on the Nomad or if its different. Mocamino can enlighten us. Sorry about the confusion. Rod I hope to get some pics of the spring mount of the Ozark today. I did feel behind the wheel yesterday and it felt like there was a LOT of room, but I need to get under it to be sure.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Mar 24, 2024 9:38:06 GMT -8
Just remember that clearances will change as the suspension cycles. What looks good sitting in the driveway may not be so good hitting a pothole at 50mph.
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mocamino
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Post by mocamino on Mar 25, 2024 6:02:57 GMT -8
First thing that strikes me is the way undersized tires but, aren't these the frames where the tire can rub on the spring mount? Gotta watch that. Blocks and or rearched springs are a viable option. But if looking for more than 3 or 4 inches a non dropped axle is probably a better solution. If Teachndad pictures are accurate, it appears that the front mount of the spring can be modified for some extra height. Drilling a new set of holes for the front spring eye may be viable, moving the eye down 3 inches should net about 1.5 inches of lift. Thanks for adding to the conversation. I want to clarify that the pictures I posted are from an Aristocrat trailer, not the Nomad that is the focus of the thread. I only pointed out the drop floor frame pix as the Aristocrat floor design was similar to the Nomad. I have since edited my post above to now indicate that the frame images are from an Aristocrat. As to the suspension design in my post above, I don't know if it mirrors what's on the Nomad or if its different. Mocamino can enlighten us. Sorry about the confusion. Rod I had a chance to pull a wheel from the Ozark and check things out more thoroughly yesterday. It has six leaf springs that are the standard 1.75" wide. With the wheel pulled and no weight on that side of the axle, the leaf eyes were 26.25" apart. Since they are 57 years old, I'm going to assume they're 26" springs that have lost some arch. They seem fairly solid but obviously have a lot of surface rust from decades of use. I think my first step is replacing the springs. Sure, they could be fine. But they could also be one good pothole from snapping a leaf. I suspect that wouldn't be much fun while going down the road at 55 mph. I still need to get the rig weighed. I *think* dry weight is going to be somewhere between 2200 and 2500 pounds. If that's the case, I probably need to be looking at 4500 pound springs, right? If the dry weight is 2500 pounds, and I then add several hundred pounds of stuff for a trip, I'd be awfully close to 3500. Pushing the capacity of the springs seems like a bad idea. Once I have the new springs on it, along with the new tires, I suspect the floor of the camper will sit at least two, maybe three inches higher. If I'm wrong, I can then consider lift blocks or a longer shackle at the back of the springs. My next conundrum is the springs. I haven't searched much yet, but I haven't found 4500 pound, 26" springs. Based on how they're mounted, it doesn't look like I can put in 27" springs. So I'll keep searching and hopefully find what I need. Now, if 3500 pound springs are enough, that's easy. I've found several options for those. EDIT: The post above was based on my belief that spring capacity is measured as a pair. Now I realize it's measured by each spring. Two 3500 pound springs should be great. Unless that would be TOO stiff..... Thanks everyone for your advice. Any more you have to offer would be greatly appreciated! PXL_20240324_202632565 by mocamino, on Flickr PXL_20240324_202638163 by mocamino, on Flickr PXL_20240324_202703275 by mocamino, on Flickr
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John Palmer
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Hi, From a vintage trailer guy located in Santa Ana, CA. It's good to see lots of activity here.
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Post by John Palmer on Mar 25, 2024 7:04:56 GMT -8
A couple of observations.
You're going to have fun getting the spring bolts out of that frame design. The shackle end might be OK, but the stationary end might be tough, just my guess.
Don't try to save the stripped and rusted U-Bolts, just cut them off and have new bolts made AFTER you figure out exactly how and what way you're going to perform the height rise. Do not purchase the bolts with the springs. Have your local spring shop bend up a new set to your custom dimensions, while you wait. They cost $15/bolt.
It's just a guess, but I would be surprised if you can buy "off the shelf" replacement springs to fir your application. Modern trailer springs (all from China) are not the same length/width/height/weight rating as vintage trailer springs in most cases. It's not that big of a problem to weld-on new mounts to fit the newer style springs, but NOT on your "step down" design. You want to use your old mounts.
3500# rated springs will be fine for your trailer. (1750# each)
If it were me, I would cut the U-Bolts, I would inspect the brakes/hubs/drums very closely to make certain they are still serviceable. Are they something that you can still buy parts for in the future if you ever need to make repairs? No point in doing the springs and U-Bolts now, and then have to do a new axle/hubs/brakes next. Note, new axles are round tube, your axle is square forged, the U-Bolts are completely different. Take your springs to your local Spring Shop and have them rebuilt. Make certain they replace the Main Leaf, the one with the eyelets. They will re-arch the other leaf's. The old spring steel is better quality than the new steel according to Fernando, the owner of the "three generation old" Spring Shop I use.
The reason I suggested NOT buying the U-Bolts is because after you get the new, or rebuilt springs installed you will want to check your Ride Height to see what you have changed. Just use a "C" clamp to connect the axle and the spring pack. Use a floor jack under the axle just until the trailer begins to rise. You want to make this benchmark measurement both before you begin your changes and after they are completed. By doing the repair this way you will know exactly how much change occurred in the spring change. If your still not happy, just make a couple of "thick wall" square tube riser blocks to place between the axle and the springs. Check the benchmark measurement again, THEN order your new U-Bolts in the correct length for your application.
Good luck
John Palmer
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mocamino
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Post by mocamino on Mar 25, 2024 7:37:42 GMT -8
Thanks, John, this will help a lot. The old brakes are definitely being replaced. I can't imagine parts would be available, and if they were, they'd be (more) expensive. New brakes are a better idea. The mounting hardware will all be replaced as well. Thanks especially for the tip on the U-bolts. In all honesty, the whole axle may be replaced, depending on what I find when I disassemble it enough to examine the hub.
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Post by Teachndad on Mar 27, 2024 6:26:26 GMT -8
This question is addressed to John. How do you replace the through bolts that go through the shackles? With this suspension design, can the through bolts be replaced? Are these wetbolts? I don't see any zerk fittings. Thanks, Rod
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