nccamper
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1962 Forester- 1956 Shasta
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Post by nccamper on Dec 16, 2019 6:17:31 GMT -8
This question came to mind when I saw this camper:
New campers are this high off the ground, why not old ones? I think old campers are top heavy. Or am I overthinking it?
With ground clearance of tow vehicles is much higher now than the 50s and 60s, eight inches on a vintage camper means every piece of road trash will sweep under my Tundra and bounce off my camper.
It looks like the axle will still take a hit because it's low. I wonder if there is an engineering formula to figure out how high is too high?
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oakback
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Post by oakback on Dec 16, 2019 6:41:26 GMT -8
I think old ones are low because they were towed by cars, new ones are towed by trucks.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a bit of lift because my tow vehicle is higher, and it would reduce scraping on dips (I scrape my tongue jack and rear bumper sometimes).
As far as "how high is too high", I'll leave that to an engineer.
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shekaye
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Post by shekaye on Dec 16, 2019 11:19:35 GMT -8
My axel is flipped under the springs which makes it pretty high. It pulled great though... even though she was falling apart and had her exoskeleton on.
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turbodaddy
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Post by turbodaddy on Dec 16, 2019 17:42:49 GMT -8
Never seen THAT before.
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shekaye
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Post by shekaye on Dec 16, 2019 18:32:42 GMT -8
LOL! She doesn’t look like that anymore, but we still have axles flipped. It makes it so much easier to work on it from underneath.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Dec 16, 2019 20:04:36 GMT -8
Too high is anything other than stock height with stock equipment. After that it's all up to the engineer gods. NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FLIP AN AXLE...... Period. Drop axles are not designed to carry weight in that configuration. You're asking for trouble. Bad trouble.
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oakback
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Post by oakback on Dec 17, 2019 6:46:29 GMT -8
Let's flesh out some info, feel free to correct me: Many trailer axles are intentionally bent, to better handle the load ( see 2nd pic here). Flipping a bent axle can make it much weaker. Plus you have to weld some new spring perches in place on the axle. If you don't know what you're doing (already have a straight axle, welding skills, experience, etc.), it's much easier to buy a new (already flipped, spring-over-axle) trailer axle for <$200. Raising the height can increase the stress on the spring and shackle mounting points. Imagine a vertical line from your frame to your axle. The longer this line, the greater horizontal force is on the spring mounting points. The longer this imaginary line, the greater torque is applied when the tires have horizontal resistance (forward/rearward movement, bumps in road, etc.). Without any strengthening, raising your height can increase the risk of damage, ESPECIALLY on a decades-old trailer that probably has some rust or wear. There are plenty of shops around that are familiar with raising trucks, and the stresses that are on the suspension components, and how to reduce risk of damage. They are very experienced in raising leaf springs, strengthening spring perches, and calculating proper shackle length and travel. If I raise mine, I'll take it to these guys. Then of course there's the additional risk of tip-over when turning, but that's easily overcome by not driving like a lunatic.
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roadtripper
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Post by roadtripper on Dec 17, 2019 7:18:32 GMT -8
Good topic. I’m just finishing the new springs to the new axel, new tires etc. and have gone as stock as possible which seems best to me. Taller would be handy sometimes on back roads, but I’ll just camp in a reasonable spot and explore further not towing. And of course as far as engineering, would it be for perfect conditions or times like driving across southern Wyoming in 50 mph winds or down CA 99 with bumper to bumper semi trucks? And stock height mine tows level with a straight hitch on my Colorado. I found a great jack to eliminate the annoying drag and no tail gate down. Tractor Supply has a jack called “the ultimate jack” that has a post that raises and lowers and with an easy modification (removing a small nylon keeper bolt) the shaft easily pulls out and you toss it in the bed of the truck so the tail gate will lower without a long hitch, and nothing hanging down to bend on the dips. It’s about $70 and built very nicely.
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mobiltec
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Post by mobiltec on Dec 17, 2019 7:23:27 GMT -8
Let's flesh out some info, feel free to correct me: Many trailer axles are intentionally bent, to better handle the load ( see 2nd pic here). Flipping a bent axle can make it much weaker. Plus you have to weld some new spring perches in place on the axle. If you don't know what you're doing (already have a straight axle, welding skills, experience, etc.), it's much easier to buy a new (already flipped, spring-over-axle) trailer axle for <$200. Raising the height can increase the stress on the spring and shackle mounting points. Imagine a vertical line from your frame to your axle. The longer this line, the greater horizontal force is on the spring mounting points. The longer this imaginary line, the greater torque is applied when the tires have horizontal resistance (forward/rearward movement, bumps in road, etc.). Without any strengthening, raising your height can increase the risk of damage, ESPECIALLY on a decades-old trailer that probably has some rust or wear. There are plenty of shops around that are familiar with raising trucks, and the stresses that are on the suspension components, and how to reduce risk of damage. They are very experienced in raising leaf springs, strengthening spring perches, and calculating proper shackle length and travel. If I raise mine, I'll take it to these guys. Then of course there's the additional risk of tip-over when turning, but that's easily overcome by not driving like a lunatic. No corrections needed.
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oakback
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Post by oakback on Dec 17, 2019 7:26:35 GMT -8
I found a great jack to eliminate the annoying drag and no tail gate down. Tractor Supply has a jack called “the ultimate jack” that has a post that raises and lowers and with an easy modification (removing a small nylon keeper bolt) the shaft easily pulls out and you toss it in the bed of the truck so the tail gate will lower without a long hitch, and nothing hanging down to bend on the dips. It’s about $70 and built very nicely. I just saw this jack in TS last weekend, and was upset I didn't see it sooner. My trailer jack is only a year old (and painted), but I'm already thinking about replacing it with The Ultimate Jack. I really like the design.
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kirkadie
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Post by kirkadie on Dec 17, 2019 7:29:52 GMT -8
nccamper's first picture reminds me of when I was in grade school and had to wear my older brother's hand me downs. He was shorter than me and I was given the nickname of "high water" 'cause that's the way I looked in my too-short blue jeans.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Dec 17, 2019 7:38:23 GMT -8
Interesting idea.
So the entire jack raises and lowers leaving nothing sticking out the bottom. And it lowers enough to open the tailgate?
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"...there's the additional risk of tip-over when turning, but that's easily overcome by not driving like a lunatic."
True. If I'm correct in assuming new campers are made of lighter materials especially towards the top, they can handle more speed on curves. My 1962 Forester is framed with ripped 2x4s and weights 700 pounds more than our (same size) 1959 Shasta Airflyte. I move slowly on curves even with the camper at the 1962 factory height.
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roadtripper
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Post by roadtripper on Dec 17, 2019 7:59:05 GMT -8
NC, there is a small bolt to keep the jack from pulling out of the part that is bolted to the tongue. It is easily removed, and not really needed. Then that pin with the handle pulls and the entire shaft can lift out for travel and slips right back in when you want to disconnect. When we are on the road and stop for one night now I can drop the tailgate and not worry about unhooking. If they have a TS out there near you go check it out. You’ll see what I mean.
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shekaye
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Post by shekaye on Dec 17, 2019 8:26:17 GMT -8
Just to be clear, we did not raise our camper. The PO who parked in the middle of the desert with no access road did. As well as attach an exoskeleton to it’s outside. We have no intention of leaving that high after we are completely finished with her. As I stated before, it makes it easier to work with. We will have a small lift on her since we drive tall 4 wheel drives. We like to go overlanding, but nothing to extreme. My favorite campground in Santa Fe area is a little rough to get to and it’s a one way pathed road. I love that jack that was posted from Tractor Supply. I’m going looking for it now.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Dec 17, 2019 16:02:49 GMT -8
...it makes it easier to work with. Now that you mention it, the extra height would make getting under it less claustrophobic. I spent two days grinding and painting the frame on my last project. Totally miserable with low clearance and floor jacks only gain you so much.
--- Some of these rotten campers really take a lot to flip.
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