stevefd
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Post by stevefd on Oct 13, 2019 6:42:06 GMT -8
I’m gonna use my Kreg pocket hole jig to screw the framing members together. I’m also going to glue the joints. This seems to be a popular method.
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johnd
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1958 Boles Aero Zenith
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Post by johnd on Oct 13, 2019 9:41:37 GMT -8
I’m gonna use my Kreg pocket hole jig to screw the framing members together. I’m also going to glue the joints. This seems to be a popular method. Who is saying to glue the joints? Because I have heard people that have been rebuilding trailers for years say that they do not glue the joints.
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stevefd
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Post by stevefd on Oct 13, 2019 12:05:58 GMT -8
I’m gonna use my Kreg pocket hole jig to screw the framing members together. I’m also going to glue the joints. This seems to be a popular method. Who is saying to glue the joints? Because I have heard people that have been rebuilding trailers for years say that they do not glue the joints. Using a pocket hole jig is the popular method. A friend of mine that makes cabinets suggested to glue the joints. I don’t see the harm in it.
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ekimnamniets
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Post by ekimnamniets on Oct 13, 2019 12:43:40 GMT -8
Kind of what I'm trying to find out. If it's a bad idea I'd like to know beforehand!
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stevefd
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Post by stevefd on Oct 13, 2019 14:55:10 GMT -8
From doing a little bit of research on gluing pocket holes (in general) there seems to be different opinions on the issue. Some say gluing end grain and side grain is useless. Some say it works good; particularly on hard wood more than soft wood such as pine. The argument is that the end grain is porous and absorbs the glue and you don’t get a strong bond. It seems the joint by the pocket hole is strong regardless if you glue it or not. Gluing may be overkill. It also makes it harder to do rework. I found an interesting video on the topic. Link below. Side note: I’ve never encountered anyone saying their pocket holes without glue did not hold up on their trailer. www.wwgoa.com/video/pocket-hole-joints-glue-016429/
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speak
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Post by speak on Oct 13, 2019 17:35:29 GMT -8
From doing a little bit of research on gluing pocket holes (in general) there seems to be different opinions on the issue. Some say gluing end grain and side grain is useless. Some say it works good; particularly on hard wood more than soft wood such as pine. The argument is that the end grain is porous and absorbs the glue and you don’t get a strong bond. It seems the joint by the pocket hole is strong regardless if you glue it or not. Gluing may be overkill. It also makes it harder to do rework. I found an interesting video on the topic. Link below. Side note: I’ve never encountered anyone saying their pocket holes without glue did not hold up on their trailer. www.wwgoa.com/video/pocket-hole-joints-glue-016429/It sounded as if he (video) was talking of putting glue into the holes. Did I interpret that correctly? I have been gluing the contact areas prior to tightening the screws. Maybe it doesn't really matter either way on the glue. I'm interested in hearing other opinions. Glue or no glue - enjoy the rebuilds.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Oct 13, 2019 18:28:27 GMT -8
I don't glue the framing joints. Although I appreciate the effort involved, I've dismantled several campers and never seen it done at the factory. I'm only guessing, but I think the glue won't hold with all the bouncing and swaying.
I do use glue on benches, cabinets and plywood curving.
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Post by danrhodes on Oct 14, 2019 12:09:20 GMT -8
I don't glue the framing joints. Although I appreciate the effort involved, I've dismantled several campers and never seen it done at the factory. I'm only guessing, but I think the glue won't hold with all the bouncing and swaying.
I do use glue on benches, cabinets and plywood curving.
Mine had all the panels glued to the framing and it was so strong I ruined many panels and had to sand off glue residue on the framing I reused. I also glued my panels back on because my wall staples were pretty floppy in places so it helped hold it all together
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ekimnamniets
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Post by ekimnamniets on Oct 14, 2019 16:05:08 GMT -8
That's what I'm talking about Dan, seeing as how these are a "unit Body" type construction......it makes sense to me that glue anywhere it can be applied (between joints on framing, interior paneling to framing etc.) would be nothing beneficial. The modern glues that are available in todays market are so much better that when this thing was built in 1955 would have some bearing as to why the original manufactures didn't use any. That and the added cost of course. KA-CHING!
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kirkadie
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'69 Serro Scotty Hilander
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Post by kirkadie on Oct 14, 2019 16:49:46 GMT -8
No glue on framing, but on cabinet face frames etc good. Kreg jig good for cabinets too but vintage trailers didn't use screws in framing joints, only fastening walls to cabinets with some higher quality trailers. Staples were the common fastener of the day, and although irritating when disassembling, they make quick work for assembly, and don't leave hidden heads like screws do, a real pain when attaching subsequent layers (skin, and J or cap rails) which inevitability are blocked by those screw heads. I know it's tempting to want to build better than original, and I was guilty of that desire when I first started on Scotty because I came from boat yards, but trailer stresses are different, and in my opinion, when dealing with 50+ year old campers, their most common reason for failure was not necessarily poor construction, although they were for the most part quickly and cheaply built, but is because owners never replaced putty tape, never pulled windows or lights off to see that they were soundly in place, etc.etc. Scotty was probably one of the most cheaply built of it's generation but although the rot was extensive, the only rot that wasn't attributed to putty tape failure was what non-plywood wall construction would be called skirting, and that could be because none of the original lowest wood surfaces was waterproofed. Scotty is 50 years old and although was crusty and mouse-poop filled, it was still standing, and as built in '69 it's life expectancy probably was never even considered, and the people on the assembly lines probably only cared about getting through to the next paycheck, not 50 years later, who am I to argue with their techniques. So, in my unasked for opinion, don't try too hard to over engineer your project. Study how your unit was put together (except for maybe adding more front and rear framing (I did))and try to replicate original methods. Probably my most long winded reply, might have to take a nap now.
post script. Could be the only reason Scotty might last another 50, er maybe 20 years is because, should I live so long, I'm a plodder and it could take that long to finish.
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ekimnamniets
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Post by ekimnamniets on Oct 14, 2019 19:15:16 GMT -8
Kirkadie, I appreciated your "long winded reply". Plenty of food for thought. Now that I'm full , I'm probably going have a nap also! I understand what you were saying and it probably goes hand in hand with one of my favorite phrases......if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Guess I'll know more when I start pulling skins loose and see how it was assembled back then.
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nccamper
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Post by nccamper on Oct 15, 2019 3:53:37 GMT -8
I agree with the above thought, any camper that survived 50+ years doesn't need too many design improvements. But a little glue in key places shouldn't be a big deal. Dan touches on a good point, once glued (for better or worse) it won't ever come apart in a surgical way again. If you have a small accident, the camper may not be repairable without hacking it apart with a saws-all.
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dragonwagons
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Post by dragonwagons on Oct 17, 2019 6:22:21 GMT -8
I’ve mostly used poplar for framing the skirt boards along the bottom I used oak. I’ve restored a lot of cars that used oak in the lower framing that were still very solid, less prone to water and rot. Then 1/8 birch for the panels, amber then clear shalac. Kreg pocket hole screws, the outdoor coated ones mostly but not always, depending on placement. It is important where you place the pocket holes side grain vs end grain etc.
Tightbond 3 amazing stuff. I used it almost everywhere. If you think it may need to comeback apart do not glue. I started with the gorilla glue in a few joints, the tightbond III is easier to work with and I think will have better longevity. I also did some biscuit joints, some mortise and tenon, some lap joints it just depends on the area.
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ruderunner
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Post by ruderunner on Oct 19, 2019 4:46:42 GMT -8
A word on oak... my understanding is that if an area is expected to get damp, don't use red oak, it's pourus and will absorb the water. White oak is the preferred wood.
Unfortunately, red oak is the easiest to find, white is difficult.
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dragonwagons
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Post by dragonwagons on Oct 19, 2019 14:25:40 GMT -8
True also white oak is a little harder 1360 vs 1290 on the Janka scale, but let’s get real, what we are really comparing is not white vs red oak but either oak vs what was originally there, PINE. Either choice will be more resistant to water and rot than pine. The weight is also a lot more, hence why I only used it for the skirt boards. I also used stainless steel screws to attach them, hex head with a counter boar and placed the way Larry recommends “not all lined up” to avoid splitting the board.
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